If you had any doubts about the leanings of the new Bishop of the Episcopal Church, then she just erased them for you.
According to the new Bishop, Homosexuality is not a sin. Clearly, she is in direct disagreement with the Holy Scriptures.
For more on her position go here:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/6/19/214551.shtml?s=rss
So, now churches may simply toss the scriptures, upon which they were founded, out the window.
What then, does the church stand for? Anything? I mean beside environmentalism, liberalism, political correctness, (which is rooted in Marxism), and moral relativism? It would seem the modern church now stands for everything... but Christ.
The scriptures tell us that those who know better, and yet choose to sin, will be punished far worse than those who did not know better and sinned. If I were among the leaders of our mainline denominations today, I would be quaking in my boots.
Longstreet
Sir,
ReplyDeleteExactly how literal should the Bible be taken? For centuries churches have chosen which passages to follow and not follow...
For example...
- Exodus 31:14 - Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
When I was a member of the Marine Corps, I worked all days of the week. Even now, as a government employee, I'm often required to work all days. Should I be put to death for it?
- Exodus 21:1 - 7 Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them.
If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.
If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:
Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
Can I still by a Hebrew slave? Should I be able to? Can I keep his wife and children, should he marry after I purchase him? What about my daughter? Can I sell her? What's the right age? She's 5 now, certainly, I'd get a better price when she's older?
Do you see the complications that would occur if we took the Bible verbatim?
tsb
tsb
I am not a Bible literalist. But, when scriptures take such a one sided stand on something, declaring it as a sin, and an abomination, and warning that those who participate in that life style will not enter heaven, then, as a religious man, it seems to me we ought to pay attention.
ReplyDeleteNow, I have no intention of trading scripture verses back and forth. It is not seemly, in my opinion.
It appears we have a disagreement, which will not be solved, as I have no intention of changing my mind and I expect the same from you.
If you care to read up on scripture’s view of homosexuality, then you will find a few verses below.
Best regards!
1 Corinthians 6:9
Genesis 19
Leviticus 18:22
Leviticus 20:13
Judges 19
Romans 1:26-27
1 Timothy 1:9-10
Jude 7
Sir,
ReplyDeleteCan you not see the hypocrisy? The Scripture must be strictly followed on homosexuality, but not so for working on a particular day or selling children to slavery?
Perhaps, should the church concern itself more with 'doing the right things' such as helping the homeless and hungry and worrying less about people lusting after each other, the world would become a better place?
tsb
I do not see the hypocrisy in doing both.
ReplyDeleteI claim no status other than hypocrite... as we ALL are. So long as we remain in the human condition we will be nothing else.
This old Pharisee will continue to see areas of black and white, of right and wrong. I see very little gray.
Seems to me we create our own gray areas when we find that "following the rules" is a bit more than we can bear. Or, in some cases, does not allow for our own wants and desires. It's much easier to bend the rules than stay within them.
By NOT concerning itself with lust, and all those other distasteful sins, the church is only carrying out a part of it's responsibility.
I feel the church has bent it's rules to conform to society until it has lost sight of, and SEEMS to have no memory of, it's "whole" purpose. It must condemn sin, continually, as a reminder to it's subscribers... else, it's purpose is only partially fulfilled.
I heard, just today, that polls show that Americans are influenced more by TV and movies than by the church. Is it any wonder? The church cannot win the battle if it doesn't fight. And it appears to have deserted the field.
Longstreet,
ReplyDeleteAll I can add is an emphatic "AMEN"
Thank you, Hoosier! I didn't mean to climb into the pulpit today and sermonize. My brother is the minister in the family. Actually, he's one among many in the family.
ReplyDeleteNo, I'm afraid my piety is questionable from time to time.
Well I did a self-irratication over a week ago, after being called a cancer...... I wanted to see just what kind of debate would happen. I noticed one thing, old friend alot of topics sat untouched... I know you can argue preaching to the choir.. here is a link to a site that has some of my Saviors words, you may find him a little more Liberal on some issues and more Conservative than I thougth on others, showing in fact that an actual balance must exist.
ReplyDeleteI urge you to read it. Even Jesus was a little liberal.
http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/fundamentalists/articles/jesus.html
Well I did a self-irratication over a week ago, after being called a cancer...... I wanted to see just what kind of debate would happen. I noticed one thing, old friend alot of topics sat untouched... I know you can argue preaching to the choir.. here is a link to a site that has some of my Saviors words, you may find him a little more Liberal on some issues and more Conservative than I thougth on others, showing in fact that an actual balance must exist.
ReplyDeleteI urge you to read it. Even Jesus was a little liberal.
http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/fundamentalists/articles/jesus.html
Welcome back, ole friend!
ReplyDeleteI thnk you and I are from the same branch of The Church. I'm Lutheran and I seem to recall you having said you were Catholic. Both of us are from Liturgical churches.
I adhere to much of the old church. My denomination began radical change in the eighties and many of us who are conservatives left the church or simply moved to another denomination.
I'm not a fundamenatlist. Believe me, having been raised as one, I know the difference.
As to whether Jesus was this, or that, I leave that for each person to decide for himself, or herself. I know what I believe and that is all I am responsible for.
I was less than thrilled with the website you offered. I went over, and had a look, and was struck by the lack of context in many of the scriptural quotes.
As an old Broadcaster, I learned how to take a recorded tape, of anyones' conversation, and edit that tape to make it appear that the recorded person was saying, well, anything I wanted them to say. It's even easier today. I had to do it by hand, eye, and ear. Now it is done digitally. But the point is, when you lift scriptural quotes from their original context, you can, pretty much, do what you please with them and make the person, having uttered the quote, to appear to have had an entirely different meaning than the original intent.
That ain't playing fair.
I would urge you to check out such quotes and read them in context and make up your mind THEN what the meaning was/is. It makes a huge difference.
I am very close to the local Episcopal community as I attended that church for a number of years. So, I am VERY well aquainted with the church. Some of the finest people I have ever met, in my entire life, are Episcopalians. I treasure them as friends. But, having said that, I do not hesitate to call my own church on the carpet when I feel they have taken a wrong turn and I reserve that right for all the rest as well.
Good to have you back.
Later.
I'm Italian Longstreet and that leaves 2 choices, Catholic, or Excamunicated...... While I don't attend church, at least not since I was in my buddies wedding, I am no pillar of society, nor a model of saint-hood, I just try to be better to those around me and to the world in which I live. I find too many hypocracies in the churches, and alot in myself, but I can only reflect on mine, measure my own short comings, and try to illiminate my own.... Will I go to Heaven, I don't know, my concern is leaving this place better for all than I found it. Sometime I think only I know what is best, and that can be a short coming of mine.
ReplyDeleteThis issue of the anglican communion splitting is yet another excellent proof in real life of why the church needs to be One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. Without any final authority over issues of faith and morals and how to interpret the Bible, history will repeat itself again and again as the churches have been doing since 1517. It's Deja Vu all Over again
ReplyDelete